[Majin~Vegeta]

Originally Posted by DETONATOAREA

There is currently one death: that at the hand of other organisms. We are a colony of cells that work in harmony. But when other kinds of foreign creatures enter this colony it breaks it.
This means no human had died of being old. All humans were killed.
At some point humans go old and their final layer of cells, if destroyed, will cause the whole body to collapse.

If prevented, this would lead to another problem: brain overload.
Imagine humans living 3000 years. They would learn so much (and EVERYTHING you see, hear, feel is acquired somewhere and never deleted, i am sure it never gets deleted but just forgotten as you may recall that information after many years) and eventually the brain would just have nowhere else to expand. To which there would be three events that would happen:
A) Brain overloads, start to malfunction, is unable to think of present or future and will just block itself searching through the information learned. In this case the person would go psycho.
B) Brain overloads, person goes psycho and then brain shuts itself down as it has reached maximum capacity.
C) Brain finds a solution which can be either expansion or deletion of internal memories. This requires that humans would study if the brain has any "Just in case" codes inside. If there is such a code then it means humans have the ability to live endless but are just killed by smaller organisms.

Its not so much about other organisms "killing" us, this is more just coincidental in the struggle for survival.

If I reduce this to something more fundamental such as Information Theory, Claude Shannon who developed a telecommunications model states that there is always, no matter how much you reduce it, a certain degree of "noise" in the process of transmit/receiving in any information system.

If intelligence is not used to counter-act this natural increase of disorder, eventually the signal attenuates out..., the noise (disorder) continues to increase and increase until the signal reaches a state of such high disorder that it no longer serves its purpose, the signal has "died" as some people will put it.

Ask yourself this, if the organisms that "killed" us hypothetically did not exist, would we still die?

Yes, because our body just like everything else is naturally heading towards a state of disorder. These external forces simply eventually overcome the finite internal forces our bodies exert.

[Wayne_Brady :P]

Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall You're all idiots. of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text Wall of text wall of text wall of text text of wall wall of text wall of text

[Heyga4Huk]

Originally Posted by DETONATOAREA

There is currently one death: that at the hand of other organisms. We are a colony of cells that work in harmony. But when other kinds of foreign creatures enter this colony it breaks it.
This means no human had died of being old. All humans were killed.
At some point humans go old and their final layer of cells, if destroyed, will cause the whole body to collapse.

If prevented, this would lead to another problem: brain overload.
Imagine humans living 3000 years. They would learn so much (and EVERYTHING you see, hear, feel is acquired somewhere and never deleted, i am sure it never gets deleted but just forgotten as you may recall that information after many years) and eventually the brain would just have nowhere else to expand. To which there would be three events that would happen:
A) Brain overloads, start to malfunction, is unable to think of present or future and will just block itself searching through the information learned. In this case the person would go psycho.
B) Brain overloads, person goes psycho and then brain shuts itself down as it has reached maximum capacity.
C) Brain finds a solution which can be either expansion or deletion of internal memories. This requires that humans would study if the brain has any "Just in case" codes inside. If there is such a code then it means humans have the ability to live endless but are just killed by smaller organisms.

the mind most certainly forgets most of everything that is learned daily, and you forget old memories nightly.

can you remember being 2-3 years old? what did you do on some day and so on..? can you remember what you did every minute yesterday, everyone you talked to and etc? i can't and in fact i have really bad memory, and that's why i'm smart to compensate for it

in fact any skill or memory that is not honed and recalled slowly fades away; for example ask your parents about the solution to a simple quadratic equation, or who wrote war and peace (tolstoy).

[Heyga4Huk]

plants, animals, people included, are very long-lived organisms (compared for example a man-made machinery) with self-healing and maintenance but certainly they have limitations even under perfect conditions.

it must not be a shock to anyone that time defeats everything, even earth's life - well, except to the odd creationist.

[DETONATOAREA]

Originally Posted by Heyga4Huk

the mind most certainly forgets most of everything that is learned daily, and you forget old memories nightly.

can you remember being 2-3 years old? what did you do on some day and so on..? can you remember what you did every minute yesterday, everyone you talked to and etc? i can't and in fact i have really bad memory, and that's why i'm smart to compensate for it

in fact any skill or memory that is not honed and recalled slowly fades away; for example ask your parents about the solution to a simple quadratic equation, or who wrote war and peace (tolstoy).

Oldest memory might date since i was 8 months old or maybe less. Was in my bed which had bars on the margins so i would not fall off. But i climbed over them and went on the floor and was grabbing anything to crawl away including chairs and mother's bed. Then mom was looking pretty pissed.

Also here's why i say things that you see are not forgotten:
You might forget it for a while, but when the correct "key" items are used, you will recall something you thought you have forgotten.
How can i recall almost all my dreams i had as a child? How can i recall every night's dream? In some days i am truly sleeping as if dead so i don't dream that much, but when i do, i lucid dream. Which is the reason why i never get enough rest. I don't enjoy my dreams. I study them.

I think the only reason we can remember things we had forgotten is, that they have been placed in some cells representing the "drawer of less used items". All you need to do is open that drawer and you see your whole life before your eyes. (There were also people saying that their life is flashing before their eyes. This could be why.)

[DETONATOAREA]

Originally Posted by Heyga4Huk

plants, animals, people included, are very long-lived organisms (compared for example a man-made machinery) with self-healing and maintenance but certainly they have limitations even under perfect conditions.

it must not be a shock to anyone that time defeats everything, even earth's life - well, except to the odd creationist.

How can the starfish be defeated without being truly killed? You can split it into several other beings, you may not know which one is the original, but all in all it creates new cells... so it is immortal.

Also time does not exist.

[Zomgzombie]

Originally Posted by Majin~Vegeta

Text was too long for me to quote.

When I said "God," before, I did mean an omniscient being. No matter which religion you refer to, "God," always turns out to be the same thing. Take the Mayans for example. They prayed to the Sun God. For the Greeks, there was Zeus. For the Norse, there was Apollo. Each of them, though different religions by name and virtue, all portray the same image of "God" (an old man with a long, white beard). Each of them have different religions, but God is the same to them all. He rules everything. He sees everything. He hears and feels everything. I think, to be honest, that we're nothing more than some kind of weird ant farm. I just don't know who the care-taker is.

I'm smacking myself for bringing this up, but think about the movie The Matrix. In that movie, they were giving a very clear message (that most probably missed). They said that we are simply part of some kind of system. We are all connected, and we all serve the same purpose. We're like chips in a computer...or micro computers of some kind. We all get viruses. We all shut down (death). We reboot (sleep). Our brains store memory like a computer's hard-drive.

What if we are nothing more than some playing object of something that we can't see or something that we can't feel? I'd like to believe that I'm part of some kind of system over believing that angels held their hands under an old guy's feet so that he could walk on water and perform stupid parlor tricks. Hell, I'd like to believe that Moses was just on shrooms and that the parting of the Red Sea was just a wicked hallucination. But... There's the thing. We can never know.

Everyone always tries to figure out where we came from, why we're here, what purpose we serve. It's like as a community, as a whole, as a RACE, we're moving faster than the universe wants us to. When cave-men wanted to move something, it took them centuries to invent the wheel. When more intelligent men wanted to move things in bulk (or even families) it took them decades to build the wagon. But it only took us years to go from a wagon to a car...from a car to a diesel...or from a crappy little make-shift plane to a fighter jet. As a collective unit, we're trying to beat the system. We're trying to figure out why we're here, who put us here, etc.

I know this is all randomly jumbled together, but it all serves the same purpose. My brain just exploded in thought, so I typed. But..Another thing to consider is that following suit about moving faster than the universe: They say that the sun is going to swallow the Earth in 500 billion (million?) years. Right now, present day, America alone has enough explosive power to detonate planet Earth at LEAST five times over. We are moving faster than the universe, and that will be our downfall. It won't be hellfire and brimstone or some revelation of angels coming to save those who worship and demons coming to collect the souls of those who don't. It's going to be us! Humans have destroyed landscapes, moved mountains, eradicated natural habitats, and used up just about every non-renewable resource. What happens next?

I may do some editing later.

I have to start getting ready for work.

[Heyga4Huk]

Originally Posted by Zomgzombie

When I said "God," before, I did mean an omniscient being. No matter which religion you refer to, "God," always turns out to be the same thing. Take the Mayans for example. They prayed to the Sun God. For the Greeks, there was Zeus. For the Norse, there was Apollo. Each of them, though different religions by name and virtue, all portray the same image of "God" (an old man with a long, white beard). Each of them have different religions, but God is the same to them all. He rules everything. He sees everything. He hears and feels everything. I think, to be honest, that we're nothing more than some kind of weird ant farm. I just don't know who the care-taker is.

I'm smacking myself for bringing this up, but think about the movie The Matrix. In that movie, they were giving a very clear message (that most probably missed). They said that we are simply part of some kind of system. We are all connected, and we all serve the same purpose. We're like chips in a computer...or micro computers of some kind. We all get viruses. We all shut down (death). We reboot (sleep). Our brains store memory like a computer's hard-drive.

What if we are nothing more than some playing object of something that we can't see or something that we can't feel? I'd like to believe that I'm part of some kind of system over believing that angels held their hands under an old guy's feet so that he could walk on water and perform stupid parlor tricks. Hell, I'd like to believe that Moses was just on shrooms and that the parting of the Red Sea was just a wicked hallucination. But... There's the thing. We can never know.

Everyone always tries to figure out where we came from, why we're here, what purpose we serve. It's like as a community, as a whole, as a RACE, we're moving faster than the universe wants us to. When cave-men wanted to move something, it took them centuries to invent the wheel. When more intelligent men wanted to move things in bulk (or even families) it took them decades to build the wagon. But it only took us years to go from a wagon to a car...from a car to a diesel...or from a crappy little make-shift plane to a fighter jet. As a collective unit, we're trying to beat the system. We're trying to figure out why we're here, who put us here, etc.

I know this is all randomly jumbled together, but it all serves the same purpose. My brain just exploded in thought, so I typed. But..Another thing to consider is that following suit about moving faster than the universe: They say that the sun is going to swallow the Earth in 500 billion (million?) years. Right now, present day, America alone has enough explosive power to detonate planet Earth at LEAST five times over. We are moving faster than the universe, and that will be our downfall. It won't be hellfire and brimstone or some revelation of angels coming to save those who worship and demons coming to collect the souls of those who don't. It's going to be us! Humans have destroyed landscapes, moved mountains, eradicated natural habitats, and used up just about every non-renewable resource. What happens next?

I may do some editing later.

I have to start getting ready for work.

believing in that people are some kind of experiment, gives us too much credit and significance. we're most probably just a coincidence.

i never liked playing the sims, btw.

[Heyga4Huk]

Originally Posted by DETONATOAREA

Oldest memory might date since i was 8 months old or maybe less. Was in my bed which had bars on the margins so i would not fall off. But i climbed over them and went on the floor and was grabbing anything to crawl away including chairs and mother's bed. Then mom was looking pretty pissed.

Also here's why i say things that you see are not forgotten:
You might forget it for a while, but when the correct "key" items are used, you will recall something you thought you have forgotten.
How can i recall almost all my dreams i had as a child? How can i recall every night's dream? In some days i am truly sleeping as if dead so i don't dream that much, but when i do, i lucid dream. Which is the reason why i never get enough rest. I don't enjoy my dreams. I study them.

I think the only reason we can remember things we had forgotten is, that they have been placed in some cells representing the "drawer of less used items". All you need to do is open that drawer and you see your whole life before your eyes. (There were also people saying that their life is flashing before their eyes. This could be why.)

that's extraordinary if you can remember so much. for me, pretty much all childhood memories are very dim.

for the starfish yeah, you can argue that if you have children you will live through them and i think it's a very valid point.

but then again i'm fairly sure my consciousness will be over when i die. that's the half the reason of religion and of philosophy, to explain and understand what is your "soul," your consciousness, isn't it?

[Majin~Vegeta]

Originally Posted by Zomgzombie

Lots of text

When I asked you to break down "god" I did not mean what other people think, I meant what YOU think.

Now about apocalypse theory I know exactly what your talking about and ironically those prophecies may possibly be fulfilled!

When I say fulfilled I'm not at all saying these religions or prophecies are true at all...not at all! What I am saying is that I respect the mind control power of religion and that if I understand properly, the last step of belief is to "take matters into your own hands!" People who believe religion and apocalyptic theory so strongly will actually self-manifest their beliefs to be true.

Also this may sound like a conspiracy theory but it makes sense if I role-play it in my mind. If I wanted to rule the world (probably as a group of elites as opposed to 1 person), I would figure out a way using technology to "fulfill" all the major religious prophecies such as faking jesus return, starting religious wars as prophesized in the bible. Now for example since Christianity (I was raised in it so I understand it well though I do not believe it as literal truth anymore) the end of the story if you will in revelation is basically that there is a Tribulation period of war, famine, drought, disaster, disease, etc then Jesus comes back takes out the "anti-christ" whos number is 666. On a side note the Quran, the Islamic holy book says 666 is the number of god...dont you find that coincidentally interesting...and then once Jesus takes out the anti-christ will reign on the earth for 1,000 years of peace and then cast the "devil" and his "demons" into the lake of fire for eternity...

Now religion is developed long ago so first observing the correlation between the number 666 as being "evil" in Christianity, and "good" in Islam, lets remember our timeline that these 2 religions were started probably somewhere within 500 years of each other. We must remember that there were Christian crusades which were murderous and outright an act of immorality against humanity as they slayed, tortured, and burned "unholy" people including Muslims, etc.

The last book of the bible Revelations was written most would claim by a man named John (not John the Baptist) who was on the island of Patmos if I remember. It was addressed to the 7 churches of asia. Now we could go meta-physical here and speculate on "well perhaps its possible to see a probabilistic glimpse of the future and blah blah blah" but lets stick to what we can rely on...

Knowing pretty well sure that the Quran probably would have probably been written by the time he wrote the book of Revelation, you have to wonder why both religions would pick out the number 666. As to why the Islamic religion picked that number, I have not researched into that, but seeing how they elevated the status of that number in their religion to be on par with "god" to me it only makes sense that one of John's motives for writing the book of revelation was this:

One of the many reasons John wrote Revelations I think was to use the mind-control capacities of religion against an enemy religion.

See if people become "converted" to Christianity because it extorts their fear of death, etc and therefore they are enslaved to serve it and eventually it integrates as a part of their life, then to challenge it is to challenge them and so the very people who are enslaved by religion will give their lives to defend the very thing they are enslaved to because they are emotionally and intellectually dependent on it...just like an addiction or drugs.

Knowing that Islam is an "enemy" religion that challenges the livelyhood of Christianity and thereby the person themselves, to me it makes perfect sense to as part of his book depict the number of 666 as being "Evil" the number of "Satan and the Antichrist" and all the things that Christians are taught to be Evil and to be resisted at ALL COSTS!

If I wanted to rule the world knowing much of the valuable resources in the world, oil being one of them, much of it is located in the middle eastern areas which are rules by primarily Islamic religious countries, I would take advantage of Christianity which already has been setup in place to "demonize" Islam, and use that as a justification to make people think its "okay" to wage war with them while millions of innocent people such as Iraqis die at our hands.

People like my Grandma are so emotionally dependent on Christianity such as "I love my husband so much, I can't wait to see him again in heaven..." naturally can not question it because to question it is to question the primary thing that gives them most of their emotional security (even though its not true) and so they blindly talk about how were doing the right thing by bringing stability to that country because Islam is "evil..."

Yes I can agree there are some bad things about Islam such as treating women as lessers, that Jews are nothing more than animals and so to de-humanize them...but that still does not justify murdering countless innocent civilians in places like Iraq.

What this shows me is that religion can brainwash people into thinking/ignoring that its okay to slaughter countless amounts of people because they're serving "god" and therefore must be doing the "right" thing.

As Bill Maher put it in Religulous, "Religion must die if we as humanity are to live..."

And what is the primary reason religion manages to live and reproduce itself exactly like a virus does on your computer? By extorting human beings natural tendency of FEAR!

This is the primary reason why I made this thread to begin with is to gather more ideas for what people commonly tend to develop fears of.

I'm feeling strongly more and more everyday to write about addressing the topic of fear and just how serious it is to our livelyhood as humanity.

I know that eliminating fear is not possible, for to do so would be to destroy the force at the other end of the spectrum which is love, but rather the answer is to learn to control and mitigate the effects of fear so that things primarily such as religion can not feed off of us any longer, else we will destroy ourselves.

All of that was to respond to you in saying that we COULD destroy ourselves but rather we have much power at our disposal...

We have the power to bring order, creation, enhanced life, productivity, and happiness or we can bring disorder, destruction, deterioration of life, and suffering.

[Majin~Vegeta]

Originally Posted by Heyga4Huk

believing in that people are some kind of experiment, gives us too much credit and significance. we're most probably just a coincidence.

i never liked playing the sims, btw.

I want to respond to that, but not like a religious person or a common atheist does and heres why.

To claim we are a "coincidence" is to more or less say there is not a "purpose" or "reason" for why we exist.

But I would argue firstly that the universe operates on the path of least resistance...the universe performs various functions the way that requires the LEAST amount of cost which leads us to efficiency...

So the universe works on efficiency, so I make the argument that for something to exist with 0 purpose or 0 reason is to be 0% efficient, therefore the most efficient "choice" if you will is for it NOT to exist!

My second argument is to observe the natural laws of the universe, do they lead ultimately towards order or disorder?

They are leading towards disorder..., things break down, things wear out, things left unattended deteriorate, the universe itself is moving towards higher disorder as it progresses towards heat death.

Now to make this easy lets pretend the universe was heading towards a state of higher order. Then saying that life is a "coincidence" would only seem to make perfect sense right?

If things are heading naturally towards a state of higher order, then observing the progression of the origin of life and its evolution naturally is following that trend of increasing in order.

However this is not the case, we are progressing towards disorder.

And the one force that directly counters that and makes sense to be on the opposite end of the spectrum would be intelligence...

Intelligence can be observed as a force that directly works towards creating and evolving things into a higher state of order, not disorder.

To further illustrate, it only makes sense that a system will unless otherwise directed to, will follow suit after the trends of its parent system.

Take the universe for example, say the earth...it is progressing to a state of disorder and lets pretend there is a house in perfect order (how it got there lets just ignore that for now), and the intellible force (the person who lives there) suddenly dies and no one intellibly takes care of that house...

What happens? The bigger system since it is progressing towards disorder, influences this child system...the house towards disorder, the house gets overgrown, build up occurs, erosion, water damage, until eventually even just years later the house is a complete mess in much disorder that no one would want to live there.

Take that same house and now apply an intellible force to it such as someone who fixes up and resells homes, and you'll see the exact reverse effect happen. The house progresses back into a state of higher order, into a state that is now desireable again by people.

I would say evolution does make sense as the generalities of the claim map properly to both intelligible and non-intellibly guided processes.

But the obvious truth that evolutionists work to cover up is that for both the origin of and evolution of life which obviously is progressing towards more order, intelligence is required.

Now, as to how that intelligence manifested itself, I can only theorize, but the honest answer is I dont know...this is where religion starts, and dishonesty and mistruth does as well.

The real reason why top evolutionists try to defer to erroneous levels of probability over immeasureable periods of time is because they know deep down that there is a serious hole in their theory and they are covering it up.

That hole is properly filled with intelligence, but to do so is to consequently give "ammo" to religion which started the war against science because science was about truth, and truth was revealing the scam of religion.

My 3rd reason why intelligence is a required component in biological evolution is because despite their claims that mutations create information, this is not true at all.

Information does not exist in matter, only in information systems, therefore mutations DO NOT CREATE information! Rather I would state DNA is a mirror of information just like any other code is.

Firstly this is why information does not exist in matter/energy. This is what I call the "reader" problem. Write the English letter "A" on a piece of paper. Now eliminate from the equation the aesthetic properties such as the color of the paper or ink, the size, stuff like that etc.

Take 1 person who reads english and someone who does not.

The person who reads english will express it means one thing which has a particular informational weight/property, while the person who does not expresses it has a different weight/property.

If it is the same identical instance of matter/energy, how can it have 2 properties of information? This is because it doesn't, rather information exists only in information systems.

For each observer, is created their own internal information subset in their own unique information system.

All a code is, is a reflection of information.

What do I mean by that?

I mean that it would be inefficient for you to memorize letter for letter, word for word, sentence for sentence all the pages in an entire book...thats a HUGE amount of information.

Instead you a limited portion of information...patterns and then when you observe those highly unique patterns, you at the point of observation reconstruct the meaning then and there.

For example you only remember the letters A-Z, numbers 0-9 and all the common english punctuation symbols.

Then you remember words, various combinations of these characters and the associated meaning attached to that unique word.

Simply remembering this limited amount of information, you can then read any and all books in all of human history that are written in english. And you don't need to memorize all of them...THAT WOULD BE TONS OF INFORMATION!

Rather you observe the letters on the page, then via memory recall the word it represents, then the associated meaning that the word represents, and then you combine those unique meanings together as you read sentences to internally create your own internal meaning associated with that sentence, then a paragraph, then a page, then a chapter, then the entire book.

In the same way, DNA is simply a reflection of common information patterns so that a something such as a single celled organism with its extremely limited memory capacities can still function.

When the next cell comes along and observes the highly coicidental patterns of DNA, it as a proto-consciousness of sorts observes these patterns and in its "mind" if you will creates an internal information subset so as to map its understanding to these unique patterns.

Once it has mapped its "understanding" to these patterns, it can then process these patterns by reading them and proceeding to do what the previous cell did.

So I have shown that information does not exist in matter, it does not exist in DNA at all, it is merely highly coincidental patterns right?

So then one still says that well by proxy of random mutations the patterns get changed and so the observer then creates new internal information and therefore does something different than before.

Yes I will agree this is absolutely possible, but highly and statistically improbable.

If I explain the whole picture it makes reasonable sense that intelligence is a preferred explanation over non-intelligence.

Use the following analogy: The cell is to a computer as DNA molecules are to its Hard Drive.

In theory, if I as an external force manipulate the arrangement of the lands and peaks on the hard drive into another particular order. The computer will "observe" these patterns, and create new information based on these "new" patterns. But this is assuming a "perfect world."

But what is realistically bound to happen? That as an external source which does not know the significance of the arrangement of lands and peaks on the harddrive (therefore I can be considered a non-intellible force) re-arranges them and then "hopes" that I managed to provide a proper pattern for the computer...what is likely to happen?

The computer will crash and say that I need to run check disk because of hard drive corruption...the system fails and does not boot! Perhaps not at all if the damage is enough!

Now lets say an internal source such as a program (which is considered an intellible source) makes a change in the information running in a process, and then decides to "save" (reflect) that change onto the hard drive, it intelligibly tells the hard drive to spin up, to move out its read/write arm and when and where exactly and how to read/write to the drive.

The program intellibly causes a change...a "mutation" in the sequencing of the lands and peaks of the hard drive, just like the sequencing of DNA "mutates."

The contents of the hard drive have now changed which REFLECT a change in the information system.

Of the 2 probable causes, an intelligent cause versus an unintellible cause (note that coicidentally the intelligent one was also internal, while the unintelligible one was external) which explanation is most probable to be true?

Naturally I would state intelligence based on the above arguments.

As far as I can see, at every turn, intelligence presents itself in a completely rational sense as highly probable while trying to negate intelligence as part of the cause makes the argument highly improbable.

[Majin~Vegeta]

So I can't blame people for thinking a "god" created us, it in fact makes very much sense because think about a creator making the first cell, and then as he learned from the process, just like cars, computers, and other human creations, they went through apparent evolutionary process.

The first car was a Model-T that could only go about 20mph looked a certain way, worked a certain way, etc. You could see that the car went through an apparent evolutionary process both variation via mutation in this case in its design, and selection! People liked one car more than the other, so manufacturers started making more of this car and less of that one!

So when a fundamental idea of intelligent design meets evolution, the two theories are NOT mutually exclusive at all! They in fact synergize one another to make a very powerful theory!

Now of course that being the case, one must ask where did the designer go? Shouldn't we see evidence of the designer still creating things?

This is a good question for which I do not have much of an answer nor any proof to support it in either case.

All I'm trying to do is open people's eyes to see the truth that Religion and Science are both in this case lying to us about this issue because its not about truth in this particular instance, its about control, its about power.

[Lotak]

Originally Posted by Majin~Vegeta

What this shows me is that religion can brainwash people into thinking/ignoring that its okay to slaughter countless amounts of people because they're serving "god" and therefore must be doing the "right" thing.

As Bill Maher put it in Religulous, "Religion must die if we as humanity are to live..."

And what is the primary reason religion manages to live and reproduce itself exactly like a virus does on your computer? By extorting human beings natural tendency of FEAR!

This is the primary reason why I made this thread to begin with is to gather more ideas for what people commonly tend to develop fears of.

I'm feeling strongly more and more everyday to write about addressing the topic of fear and just how serious it is to our livelyhood as humanity.

I know that eliminating fear is not possible, for to do so would be to destroy the force at the other end of the spectrum which is love, but rather the answer is to learn to control and mitigate the effects of fear so that things primarily such as religion can not feed off of us any longer, else we will destroy ourselves.

All of that was to respond to you in saying that we COULD destroy ourselves but rather we have much power at our disposal...

We have the power to bring order, creation, enhanced life, productivity, and happiness or we can bring disorder, destruction, deterioration of life, and suffering.

Religion is not the only organization that can do that. Hitler convinced the Germans that they were the master race and that they should kill Jews, Poles, Slavs, homosexuals etc....and he wasn't exactly a very religious man. Not going to deny that religion hasn't done that though. Its even occurred in the Hebrew Bible. Personally as I said in another thread in my home chit chat, what causes people to hate others is the tried and tested tactic that has worked throughout the history of civilization: Blame someone else.

Are you saying that religion uses fear to shackle people into staying in that religion? what fear is it that religion is extorting? From what you've written, sounds like you mean fear of what happens after death, but I just want to make sure.

And I really, really, REALLY agree on your implication that you cannot have one extreme (fear) without the other (love), although I don't personally agree on those two being extremes but that is neither here or there. I use that as a reason when people ask "why do bad things happen to good people?" or "How can there be a G-d in the world if bad things happen?".

[DETONATOAREA]

Originally Posted by Heyga4Huk

that's extraordinary if you can remember so much. for me, pretty much all childhood memories are very dim.

for the starfish yeah, you can argue that if you have children you will live through them and i think it's a very valid point.

but then again i'm fairly sure my consciousness will be over when i die. that's the half the reason of religion and of philosophy, to explain and understand what is your "soul," your consciousness, isn't it?

Oddly i see a pattern here:
Cells that are part of us become children. But the children don't have our consciousness.
On the other hand if you think further than the cell, that cell has DNA parts which come from our ancestors. In a way, part of them, but not their memories, are inside us.
Memories i'm 90% sure that get dissolved. As in when something or someone dies, the memories slowly start to fade away until there's nothing but black. And the thoughts just make no sense even to you anymore.

I see death as a state of "I don't give a damn" a state that follows after the fear of losing your "mind".

The flashbacks that happen while humans die could possibly be the brain discharging everything that has been stored. Maybe we live our life a 2nd time but we won't be able to change it. And if it would be re-lived through this, it would be like living all of your years in just a matter of minutes.
And then it all just explodes i guess. Or it ends with nonsense.


The only thing that makes me contradict this is:
When you sleep and don't dream of anything, it's like you have traveled through time and that you just closed your eyes and then re-opened them. But what if it's just like you closed your eyes and never re-opened them? You would not remember that you lived. So technically how could i say that i am now here, and then i am not at all? That is what makes me dizzy.
Because i cannot see a true "nothing", i cannot understand how nothing would follow death.

The nothing part: Even when you say you are thinking of nothing, it is IMPOSSIBLE to think of nothing. When you say that there's nothing in front of you, there actually is air. If you say there is nothing that looks like an object, the object actually exists, it's in your mind when you imagine it.

So where does TRUE nothing exist? Some say in void / space. But what about the 0 energy? It is always there to fill in the gaps. SO there again there is no true nothing.

[DETONATOAREA]

About the void:
I see this world as a domino game. It's made out of spheres in the micro and macro level.
The smallest things we can see are spheres, the biggest things we can see that we can call bodies are planets. oddly these planets have a circular orbit around a sun. The galaxies are also circular... So somehow everything tends to make spheres if you rotate those circles.

What if the domino pieces in this world are those spheres? And true void can never be achieved because if you take away everything from a box, the box would get sucked in. The spheres you had taken away (air, heat, energy) would all go into your vacuum and the box would just stick its walls into each other to cover the loss of materials.